Do Muslims Believe They Can “Earn” Paradise?

Do Muslims Believe They Can “Earn” Paradise?

By Quran and Bible Blog Contributor stewjo004

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بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْم

“Those who believe and do the few good deeds expected of them, will have their Lord guide them because of their faith…”[1]

            A common claim by Christian missionaries is that Islam is a ‘works’ based religion (i.e. you try to ‘earn’ your way into Heaven by doing good deeds).  This comes purely from ignorance of Islam’s teachings and is part of the propaganda to promote “Christianity as the ‘only’ religion that is based on faith to get into Heaven and therefore it’s the truth because of this unique belief”.  In this article we will explore this argument and see if this is true.

Islam is also based on faith –

            To begin, let’s first refute the claim that Islam believes a person can earn his/her way to Heaven.  What’s good for us is we have several narrations that directly relate to this topic:

“A man in the past worshipped Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) continuously for 500 years. He was granted a shelter on top of a mountain that was surrounded by salty water. However, Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) caused a stream of sweet water to flow through the mountain for that individual. The man would drink from this water and use it to make ablution. Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) also raised a pomegranate tree from which the man would eat one fruit every day.

One day, this person supplicated to Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) that, “Oh Allah (سبحانه وتعالى), bring my death while I am in the state of prostration.” Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) accepted this dua of his. Whenever Jibreel (عليه السلام) came down to the Earth, he found this man prostrating to Allah (سبحانه وتعالى). Jibreel (عليه السلام) said that on the day of Judgement, Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) will tell the angels to take this individual to Paradise through His mercy. However, this man will insist that he should enter paradise through the good deeds that he had performed.

 Then, Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) will tell the angels to compare his good deeds with the blessings that were given to him in the world. It will be seen that 500 years of his worship does not even equal to the gift of eye sight that was given to him by Allah (سبحانه وتعالى). The angels will be asked to take him toward the hell fire. Then the man will plead, “Oh Allah (سبحانه وتعالى)! Enter me into Paradise only through Your mercy.” At that point, the following discussion will take place between Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) and that man.

Allah (سبحانه وتعالى): Oh my servant, who created you?

The worshipper: Oh Allah (سبحانه وتعالى), You have created me.

Allah (سبحانه وتعالى): Were you created because of the good deeds you have done or because of My mercy?

The worshipper: Because of Your mercy.

Allah (سبحانه وتعالى): Who granted you the ability to worship for 500 years?

The worshipper: Oh the Almighty! You have granted me that ability.

Allah (سبحانه وتعالى): Who placed you on the mountain surrounded by the ocean? Who caused a stream of sweet water to flow in between the salty water? Who caused a pomegranate tree to grow for you? Who granted you death while in the state of prostration?

The worshipper: Oh the Sustainer of the Worlds! You have done all of these.

Then Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) will say, “All these have happened due to My mercy and you too will enter Paradise only through My Mercy.”[2]

As can be seen, this alone is enough to refute the claim, but let’s explore a few more narrations:

“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger () as saying: None amongst you can get into Paradise by virtue of his deeds alone. They said: Allah’s Messenger, not even you? Thereupon he said: Not even I, but that Allah should wrap me in His Grace and Mercy.”[3]

Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin Al-‘As that the Messenger of Allah () said: “Indeed Allah will distinguish a man from my Ummah before all of creation on the Day of Judgement. Ninety-nine scrolls will be laid out for him, each scroll is as far as the eye can see, then He will say: ‘Do you deny any of this? Have those who recorded this wronged you?’ He will say: ‘No, O Lord!’ He will say: Do you have an excuse?’ He will say: ‘No, O Lord!’ So He will say: ‘Rather you have a good deed with us, so you shall not be wronged today.” Then He will bring out a card (Bitaqah); on it will be: “I testify to La Ilaha Illallah, and I testify that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger.” He will say: ‘Bring your scales.’ He will say: ‘O Lord! What good is this card next to these scrolls?’ He will say: ‘You shall not be wronged.’ He said: ‘The scrolls will be put on a pan (of the scale), and the card on (the other) pan: the scrolls will be light, and the card will be heavy, nothing is heavier than the Name of Allah.’”[4]

So yes, Islam teaches that believers should do good deeds, but Muslims do not believe that we can use them as some bargaining chip with God on the Day of Judgment, because the reality is nothing we do is enough to show the proper thanks to God for all the blessings He has and continues to bestow on us.  Paradise is awarded only because of God’s mercy and love.  However, just because we are saved by His mercy and love does NOT mean we go around acting self-righteous, and stop doing good or performing voluntary acts to get closer to God.

            What the above narrations are discussing is not to not feel entitled to a reward as a result of our actions. In fact, God tells us in the Quran that it was because of Him that we were guided and it is because of Him that we were able to perform the good in the first place. Therefore, our reliance should be solely on Him. In Surah Al-Araf, God describes the people’s situation in Heaven:

“I will pull out all secret ill feelings from their chest; underneath their feet streams will flow and they will say: “All the praise and thanks belongs to God, who guided us to this! Had God not guided us, we would never have found the way! The Messengers of our Lord really did come with the Truth…” A voice will announce to them: “This is the Garden you have inherited because of all the work you used to do.”[5]

Notice that the people in Heaven are not bragging about their good deeds, but rather praising God for guiding them.  God out of His appreciation for their faith and doing good gave them the gift of Paradise:

“So whoever does good deeds and is a believer, their efforts will not be ignored, I am recording them for them.”[6]

“There they will hear no vain or lying talk. A reward from your Lord, a fitting gift.”[7]

The question may arise: so why do good?  To put it simply, we do good deeds as an expression of faith. Actions are a reflection of what is in our heart. For example, I can say I love somebody but if I beat them every day, it is seriously suspect if I truly love them.  We do not do good to obtain some righteous standard that admits us into Heaven. Worship in Islam is done solely to please God.  We perform our acts of worship because we were commanded to do them:

“It was narrated that ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr said: ‘The Messenger of Allah () said: ‘Adhere to righteousness even though you will not be able to do all acts of virtue…’”[8]

Now it is true that none of us are infallible and that we all sin. Where we differ from Christians in viewing sin is that God knew we were going to sin when He created us. What sin allows us to do is repent and come back to God seeking His mercy and forgiveness, which is something God absolutely loves:

“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger () having said: ‘By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.’”[9]

            To further prove that the act of worship is simply a by-product of faith, we must remember that in Islam, for the good deed to be accepted by God, there are two things that have to be there:

  1. The proper intention.
  2. It is done in accordance with what God has legislated.

If either of these are missing, God rejects the act of worship. So if we were doing mindless deeds, such as mindlessly rushing through prayer or helping someone only so that they will hurry up, thinking that we would still receive the reward, this is not the case.

            So to sum everything up:

  1. Islam is based on faith, not works.
  2. Doing good is a by-product of having faith.
  3. Don’t listen to people who have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[1] Surah Yusuf, 10:9.

[2] Bayhaqi & Al-Hakim.

[3] Sahih Muslim, 39:6764.

[4] Jami At-Tirmidhi, 5:38:2639.  Classified as “Sahih” by Darussalam.

[5] Surah Al-Araf, 7:43.

[6] Surah Al-Anbiya, 21:94.

[7] Surah An-Naba, 78:35-36.

[8] Sunan Ibn Majah, 1:1:277.  Classed as “Hasan” by Darussalam.     

[9] Sahih Muslim, 37:6622.

 

63 thoughts on “Do Muslims Believe They Can “Earn” Paradise?

  1. notice that Allah is the one who sends someone to say ,

    A voice will announce to them: “This is the Garden you have inherited because of all the work you used to do.

    so it is God telling them about their deeds. a similar example i quote is ,

    6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord. (Lk. 1:5-6 NAU)

    It doesn’t say they were righteous according to Law. It says they were righteous in God’s sight. So it is God who is drawing the conclusion that they are righteous. And the given reason is not “because Jesus was doing to die for them”, but because they walked “blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.”

    Liked by 2 people

    1. stewjo004

      Excellent point akhi, Zachariya, and Elizabeth were righteous because they followed Allah’s laws. Faith and doing good go hand in hand. Of course, Faith is important (otherwise no good deed counts) but doing good is the next step once faith enters the heart and it increases the faith in the heart, hence them being mentioned together frequently.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Paulus

    Islam is a works based religion. This article doesn’t dispute this. Christians have never said that faith isn’t important. Islamic theology combines faith and good deeds as a prerequisite for jannah as the following makes clear…

    “The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Whoever believes in Allah and His Apostle offers prayers perfectly and fasts (the month of) Ramadan then it is incumbent upon Allah to admit him into Paradise”- notice faith plus works

    “Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “Allah has ninety-nine names, i.e. one-hundred minus one, and whoever knows them will go to Paradise.”

    “The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur (i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur (wickedness) leads to the (Hell) Fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar.”- works based salvation.

    “We were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and Bilal stood up and gave the call. When he fell silent the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: ‘Whoever says the same as this (what the Mu’adhdhin) with certainty, he will enter Paradise.“

    “The Messenger of Allah said: “Whoever calls the Adhan for twelve years, he will be guaranteed Paradise, and for each day sixty Hasanat (good deeds) will be recorded for him by virtue of his Adhan, and thirty Hasanat by virtue of his Iqamah.”“

    My father said, “Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, ‘Whoever prays the two cool prayers (`Asr and Fajr) will go to Paradise.’ “

    Like

    1. Paulus

      I could go on and on and on.

      As I’ve said in other threads. Islam has a very contradictory soteriology due to its works based emphasis is and contradictory scriptures.

      Like

    2. Paulus

      And some Islamic scholars…

      “In brief, Jannah is only granted for those who strive for it and there are some conditions to be met for a person to be admitted to Jannah. Whoever works in this life for the sake of the Hereafter and fulfills the conditions of Jannah, he or she will be admitted to it.“- Sheikh Hamed Al-`Ali, instructor of Islamic Heritage at the Faculty of Education, Kuwait and Imam of Dahiat As-Sabahiyya Mosque

      This is the situation of a person who says Lā ilāha ilaAllāh with sincerity and Sidq (truthfulness) like this person did. This is because many Muslims who had committed major sins will be made to enter the Hellfire despite them having said Lā ilāha ilaAllāh but it did not outweigh their sins like it did for this person.”-Imām Ibnu Taymiyyah

      In the hereafter, we go to Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends upon the deeds that we did in worldly life. Jannah or heaven is the hope of every Muslim all of us wish for Jannah in the hereafter. So getting Jannah in hereafter it is the objective of every Muslim in this world to do all the good deeds possible that ensure going into Paradise. A Muslim knows that the life of this world is short-term and the eternal life is in the hereafter that’s why his or her objective is to get an eternal life that is in Paradise. Allah Almighty says in Holy Quran: “O you who believe! Be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.” (Quran, 5:35)

      Like

      1. LOL, Cerbie is not only a moron, he is a deceitful moron! How come you never provide links or actual citations for your quotes? Hmmm, maybe this is why:

        Let’s see what Sheikh Al-‘Ali said in context, shall we?

        In making this point more clearer, clarifying that Jannah (Paradise) is for believers, Sheikh Hamed Al-`Ali, instructor of Islamic Heritage at the Faculty of Education, Kuwait and Imam of Dahiat As-Sabahiyya Mosque, states:

        “No one will enter Jannah (Paradise) except a believer. Almighty Allah says in the Qur’an “And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance).” (Al-‘Araaf: 50)

        Also the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “You will not enter Paradise until you believe.” (Agreed upon hadith)

        This is one of signs of Allah’s absolute justice, because when a disbeliever does something good in this world, he or she does it for the sake of a worldly gain, and it is granted to him/her. On the contrary, a believer does his or her action for the sake of seeking reward in the Hereafter, and it is on this basis he or she is granted reward according to his or her intention.

        Thus, Allah gives everyone what he or she has striven for. The believer has striven and worked for the success in the Hereafter, and as such he or she is given the same recompense for his work. But as for the disbeliever, as long as his deeds do not spring from belief (part of which is believing in the Hereafter), then he or she is not admitted to Paradise. The Kafir, or disbeliever, does not seek or strive for what is in the Hereafter, rather he or she wants to attain the pleasures in this life such as seeking people’s admiration, peace of mind, etc. If the Kafir wishes and really seeks the reward in the Hereafter, he or she would right away believe in Allah, the Hereafter, and follow the messengers of Allah and never disbelieve in any of them, because disbelieving in anyone of them would be counted as disbelieving in all messengers since the message they all brought is the same and each Prophet believed in whoever came before him and gave glad tidings to the Prophet who would come after him.

        In brief, Jannah is only granted for those who strive for it and there are some conditions to be met for a person to be admitted to Jannah. Whoever works in this life for the sake of the Hereafter and fulfills the conditions of Jannah, he or she will be admitted to it. Conversely, those who fail to work for Jannah or work for it but do not fulfill its conditions will never enter it. This is the absolute justice of Allah, and Allah does not do injustice to any body.”

        https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1351

        So notice that the Sheikh said basically the same thing that brother Stew has said. The first condition for salvation is to have faith. Good deeds come as a consequence of faith. If Islam was works-based religion, then disbelievers would also go to heaven if they did good deeds. But this is not the case. A disbeliever may get rewards for his deeds in this life, but he will have no portion if the afterlife. Ergo, Islam is a faith-based religion. You cannot be saved until you have faith.

        Now let’s look at what Ibn Taymiyyah said. Regarding the prostitute who was forgiven for showing compassion to a thirsty dog, Ibn Taymiyyah said:

        “This was a woman who provided water to the dog whilst possessing pure īmān, thus her sins were forgiven, for not every woman like her who provides water to a dog is immediately forgiven.””

        https://www.islam21c.com/islamic-thought/the-single-deed-that-saved-them/

        So, once again, the deed itself would have been useless if it was not done as a consequence of faith. Faith is the prerequisite. Without it, works are useless for the afterlife.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Paulus

        “If Islam was works-based religion, then disbelievers would also go to heaven if they did good deeds.“

        Are you deliberately being obtuse? You and stew have this weird obsession of non comprehension. I’m not disputing you need faith. Islam is works based. Faith plus. The many many Hadith and scholarly opinions makes this crystal clear.

        It’s weird that you want to make Islam more like Christianity, isn’t it?

        Like

  3. Paulus

    Compare stew….

    A common claim by Christian missionaries is that Islam is a ‘works’ based religion (i.e. you try to ‘earn’ your way into Heaven by doing good deeds). This comes purely from ignorance of Islam’s teaching“

    …with a sheikh…

    “Jannah is only granted for those who strive for it and there are some conditions to be met for a person to be admitted to Jannah. Whoever works in this life for the sake of the Hereafter and fulfills the conditions of Jannah, he or she will be admitted to it.“

    I know muslims love blaming Christians for every ill in the world, but sorry Stew, you Follow some Christianised version of Islam. That’s good!! You’re half way there!!

    Like

    1. the jew said :

      This is the catch-22 they face. If God can forgive and welcome an imperfect person, then what is the need for Jesus? On the other hand, if they are still sinning even after accepting Jesus (and ALL of them are, by their own admission), then on what basis are they fit for God’s presence, if sinless perfection is the qualifying criteria? Think about this: if it is about “the blood of Jesus” and “Jesus dying for our sins”, then there is no need for repentance or even right-doing, since God does not consider your sin, but Jesus’ supposed perfection in your place.

      ////////////

      “Because the righteousness of Christ is transferred to the christian.”

      hahahahahaah what a joke
      so how does it work exactly ? how does the “transferal work” lol

      so jesus ‘ “righteousness” is in you lol ?

      i want to try to picture this.

      when you do a deed, is it mixed with jesus’ “righteousness” ?

      so is it jesus doing the deed or you doing the deed? is it a combo? so you have “purified deeds” ? HOW DO YOU know lol ? is it a feeling ?

      is yhwh happy with your act or jesus’ “righteousness” ?

      is yhwh happy with your ACT and jesus’ “righteousness” ?

      none of your nonsensical bs makes sense. you are a DAMAGED born in sin christian. your heart is FILTH and filled with hate, anger, lust, adultery, murder…..YOU STILL SIN TODAY and tomorrow and the next day , GUARANTEED !

      SO WHAT does it mean “transferred ” lol

      first your god TRANSFERS ALL THE CRAP you do from -mon-sun and ABUSES himself with your sins, then he TRANSFERS “righteousness ” to you ? what?

      so you sin from monday-sunday and have transferal of someone else “righteousness” ?

      when you are doing deeds, is krist doing deeds in you lol ? so krist is experiencing your faith? experiencing your charity? experiencing your temptations? experiencing your worship?

      i don’t know how this transferal works, do explain.

      you did not even reply. IS IT THE “righteousness” of krist which god is happy with or your faith, deeds , repentance? do you really think you, being born with DAMAGED nature can sincerely repent ?

      you are STILL a crosstian SINNER….you still a WEAK , POLLUTED AND CORRUPT human being….is krist “righteousness” in your CORRUPTED state? does he partake in your corrupted acts, repentance, and deed?

      i want to know how X is in the DEEDS, repentance, guilt ….of Y, when Y is by NATURE CORRUPT AND POLLUTED AND STILL SINS……

      so your god is SIMPLY covering your DAMAGED BORN IN SIN BEING with his krist, and LETTING you get away with your POLLUTED NATURE, RIGHT? RIGHT? RIGHT?

      Liked by 1 person

    2. “Because the righteousness of Christ is transferred to the christian.”

      nonsensical bs like this does not address anything.

      you are BORN DAMAGED
      every thing you do is considered “menstrual rags” that would include your faith, repentance, acts….
      all you said was that god made a “krist plaster” put it on you and now is impressed….but how does that address the problem ? it is like the guy said, god is looking at SOMEONE ELSE, not you….you are BORN POLLUTED AND CORRUPT AND TODAY YOU SINNED MANY TIMES….

      by the way, do you pluck your EYES out every time you lust ? or do you cover your lust with ,”krist righteousness diy plaster ” ?

      do you see, you guys JUST GETTING AWAY WITH LUST/ADULTERY….

      your god says PLUCK OUT YOUR EYES………and if you continue, PLUCK off the second …..

      but you got that phony plaster on you, haven’t you ? bloody damaged and polluted crosstian, telling others about sins works , when he is FILLED with sins and thinks his god wiped away his CRIMES……

      Like

    3. stewjo004

      First point is you’ve basically been refuted and had 3 clear cut hadith which talk about faith and you’re ignoring them. Why don’t you actually refute or quote hadith that are relevant to the discussion and not put your personal opinion on hadith that are not even related?

      Next, you completely quoted the hadith in question out of context and some of them aren’t even related to salvation such as:
      Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur (i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur (wickedness) leads to the (Hell) Fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar.”

      This is what can lead someone to the Fire or paradise which was addressed. Their are sins which can destroy a person even something small.

      The rest of hadith are related to encouraging doing good. For example: “A person who gives charity in God’s Name will go to Heaven” it doesn’t mean if you give charity you are guaranteed Heaven (hence why you never see a Muslim saying I am guaranteed to go to Heaven even though most Muslims have done these)

      Finally, the person you quoted is unknown (just saying a “sheik” means nothing lol) but just for the sake of argument EVEN IF (and I say if because you have a tendency to half quote), it holds no bearing on Islamic theology. I know it’s weird because you don’t have Jesus(as) to guide your theology and anyone is allowed to give their opinion but our beliefs come from two sources. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry has no basis in our beliefs.

      The only known scholar you “quoted” with no reference btw (ibn Taymiyyah) is saying the same thing I’m saying:

      There are Muslims who will go to Hell due to the evil they did. But God out of His mercy will let them out eventually because of their mustard seed of faith. Ibn Taymiyyah(rh) is talking about this event. If there is a Muslim who commits major sins God will punish them first and then let him into Heaven because of their faith.

      Liked by 1 person

    4. Paulus

      Tony.

      The righteousness is imputed, not infused. You’re attacking straw men again 😂😂

      Britney.

      I wonder why you haven’t banned or moderate Tony given his profane mouth?

      Like

      1. “June 24, 2018 at 2:58 am
        Tony.

        The righteousness is imputed, not infused. You’re attacking straw men again 😂😂”

        QUOTE :
        Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

        so the quote was right, you don’t have to worry about your DEEDS, your works, your faith, because SOMEONE ELSE DEEDS ,faith , works in a finite body are looked at , so i quote again :

        This is the catch-22 they face. If God can forgive and welcome an imperfect person, then what is the need for Jesus? On the other hand, if they are still sinning even after accepting Jesus (and ALL of them are, by their own admission), then on what basis are they fit for God’s presence, if sinless perfection is the qualifying criteria? Think about this: if it is about “the blood of Jesus” and “Jesus dying for our sins”, then there is no need for repentance or even right-doing, since God does not consider your sin, but Jesus’ supposed perfection in your place.

        end quote

        now look at the works “jesus’ SUPPOSED perfection in your PLACE.”

        since jesus told you that you have a heart of LUST, is the “imputation” cover that lust?

        Like

      2. a plaster covers a wound you pagan crosstian, that was the POINT i was trying to make. a plaster does not INFUSE into wound. your god covered your 24 hour sinning because he is SELF OBSESSED with his human DEEDS in the flesh….

        you are ALLOWED to get away with your crimes because DOING GOOD IS NOT IMPORTANT even if you have faith.

        how is hiding under jesus’ skirt going ? notice you are covered by a skirt ?

        Like

  4. Paulus

    Again, and I’ve said this probably six times now, I’m not disputing Muslims need faith. But they also need deeds to enter jannah. You can dismiss the numerous Hadith I cited but that doesn’t help you. In only shows your own bias. Each one is relevant to entering jannah and are from an article on “how to get to jannah” 😂😂

    “There are Muslims who will go to Hell due to the evil they did. “

    And there is the slam dunk. You’ve just admitted that faith alone is not enough to go to jannah. My point exactly!! Islam is works based. You may believe in Allah and the prophet, but unless you do the right things you won’t go to jannah.

    Argument over.

    But but but… (the inevitable stew reply to come)

    Like

    1. LOL, moron Cerbie doesn’t get the irony of saying “I’m not disputing Muslims need faith. But they also need deeds to enter jannah.”

      Hmmm, now where have I heard something similar in the Bible? Oh yeah, right here:

      “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?” (James, 2:14)

      “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead” (James 2:26).

      Well, well, well…So Christians needs “deeds” in addition to “faith”! 😂😂

      “And there is the slam dunk. You’ve just admitted that faith alone is not enough to go to jannah. My point exactly!! Islam is works based. You may believe in Allah and the prophet, but unless you do the right things you won’t go to jannah.

      Argument over.”

      😂😂

      You see brother Stew? Cerbie is his own cheerleader! Most crosstians are!

      Oh but wait, poor Cerbie still can’t get it through his head that those Muslims who go to hell for lack of deeds…will eventually be saved on the basis of their…DING…DING…DING…FAITH! Argument over, as Cerbie would say! It is faith that saves, not deeds. If deeds did save, then even unbelievers would be saved. But that is not the case. Ergo, Islam is NOT a works-based religion.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. stewjo004

        THANK YOU!!! I could dang near kiss you for that explanation. It’s really not that hard,

        Also, this goes back to my point I made on the other thread. The Jerusalem Church seems to be a lot different from what Paul was teaching they seem to be (gasp) a lot like Muslims in their belief. I mean they weren’t reading Corinthians, Galatians or Thesolonians that’s for sure. SO wait did they not have all the Scripture…hmmm… whatever.

        Liked by 2 people

    2. stewjo004

      Lol again please refute the hadith directly related to the subject.

      Next, here come the half quotes you’re famous for:
      If they have faith they WILL go to Heaven even if they NEVER did a good deed in their life.But it is not a free for all and they can still be punished.’

      If a person who has faith but does evil God will punish them for a little while due to their evil to right the wrongs they committed to others. So they get a slight detour with punishment in the grave or Hell before going.

      Are you arguing that if a Christian believes and then rapes, murders and pillages because he believes he doesn’t have to account for what he did to others and Jesus just takes all that and screws over the wronged party? And before I get the “no Christian would do that” falacy
      1. It has happened
      2. A new Christian who doesn’t have faith settled into his heart could easily do so.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Are you arguing that if a Christian believes and then rapes, murders and pillages because he believes he doesn’t have to account for what he did to others and Jesus just takes all that and screws over the wronged party? And before I get the “no Christian would do that” falacy
        1. It has happened
        2. A new Christian who doesn’t have faith settled into his heart could easily do so.

        ////////////////

        my brother stew, that’s EXACTLY what they believe.

        christians will do the crime of lust/adultery and NEVER pluck their eyes out because someone else “righteousness” has “covered their 24 hour crime.

        they are , like i said before “hiding under the skirt of sinful jesus from nt ”

        my brother, look at it from this perspective ,

        their god considers EVERYTHING they do as “MENSTRUAL rags”

        james white says “even my (his) REPENTANCE ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH”

        this means they are PUSHING in fathers face “repentance of jesus”

        so if i made repentance…..you made repentamce….my repentance would not be accpeted because i am not sincere or can’t EVEN try to improve (if a crosstian says he tries to IMPROVE he has shot down his argument about deeds ) , so what do i do, i get your REPENTANCE and say to god, “not my repentance….stews repentance…”

        this is why i keep on saying christians are BORN WITH DAMAGED nature and their THEOLOGY SAYS exactly whAT I am saying ….

        that DAMAGED nature is PERMANENTLY part of them and they are left in their CORRUPT AND POLLUTED state of being.

        Like

    3. ” But they also need deeds to enter jannah.”

      in other words crosstians faith is ENOUGH even if he lusts everyday and commits adultery in his mind ? you don’t need to MAKE IMPROVEMENTS to REPENTANCE, CHARITY, PRAYER….because your god let you get away with INSINCERITY because of your “faith” right?

      crosstian has “faith” in the “righteousness ” of another and they CLEARLY don’t NEED IMPROVING or doing good.

      since you have DAMAGED born in sin nature, you can’t tell me that you don’t DOUBT your faith.

      do you doubt inerrancy ? do you believe ALL the stories in the nt and ot ? do you have even ONE little doubt? if you do, you are already in hell. so this means your “faith” could take you to hell too.

      Like

  5. Paulus

    “Finally, the person you quoted is unknown (just saying a “sheik” means nothing lol) but just for the sake of argument EVEN IF (and I say if because you have a tendency to half quote), it holds no bearing on Islamic theology“

    You do see the irony in this comment, right? Who are you exactly? And that sheikh? I gave his name above, which you clearly didn’t care to read, Sheikh Hamed Al-`Ali, instructor of Islamic Heritage at the Faculty of Education, Kuwait and Imam of Dahiat As-Sabahiyya Mosque.

    What are you credentials again? 😜😜

    Like

    1. Well actually brother Stew, Sheik Al-‘Ali said the same thing you did. Cerbie was simply being deceitful by quoting the Sheik out of context. That is why he never provides citations. He knows they will expose him as a liar. Cerbie is just like his savior…full of lies.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. stewjo004

        @ Qb

        After I read your post I got that (I figured he was half quoting as can be seen from the post) but the point is a random “sheikh” means nothing. Who would be essentially an Imam to a mosque be to the likes of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir or Abu Hanifa etc. I could quote a random pastor doubting the Trinity and that has no bearing on Christian theology. It is the evidence provided that matters. Because Paulus said people are allowed to comment and determine his beliefs without providing evidence from Jesus(as) I have to let him know that this doesn’t extend to other religions and you have to use two sources to determine Islamic belief.

        Like

      2. You’re right. Also, did you notice that Cerbie wants to emphasize the scholarly views in Islam, but when we quote the church fathers, he rejects them on the basis of his opinions? Who is he compared to the likes of Basil, Justin Martyr etc.?

        Like

  6. Paulus

    “Sheik Al-‘Ali said the same thing you did.“

    Let’s test this then.

    “In brief, Jannah is only granted for those who strive for it and there are some conditions to be met for a person to be admitted to Jannah. Whoever works in this life for the sake of the Hereafter and fulfills the conditions of Jannah, he or she will be admitted to it“

    “A common claim by Christian missionaries is that Islam is a ‘works’ based religion (i.e. you try to ‘earn’ your way into Heaven by doing good deeds). This comes purely from ignorance of Islam’s teaching“

    If that’s “basically the same thing”, then I’m a muhammadan! The sheikh says you have to “strive for” and “meet conditions” to gain entry. Stew says such is ignorance.

    As I said, Islam’s soteriology is so confused

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      God says in the Quran to strive in doing good he is simply quoting that.

      Next, there are conditions that have to be met even in Pauline Christianity, what are you talking about? You have to believe Jesus is your personal lord and savior. That belief is an action Cerbie that creates a condition into Heaven.

      Like

      1. ” faith itself is a gift, not a work.”

        sorry, but you have faith in a BODY….in a body ….

        YOU SAID “not work”

        so what does this mean ?

        “For everything is from You and from Your hand we have given to You” (1Chronicles 29:14).

        you have faith in a body ,

        QUOTE :

        If a man were to live a perfectly righteous life, and die a martyr’s death for the glory of God, this man would still not have given God anything that he didn’t owe to God

        QUOTE :

        Paul does not encourage his audience to throw their trust upon the all-encompassing kindness of God. Paul encourages his listeners to rely on the righteousness that was manifest in a body of flesh and blood – the alleged righteousness of Jesus (Romans 5:19). Paul attempts to convince his audience that good deeds preformed by a physical body that was created by God, that was constantly sustained by God and that operated in an arena provided by God, could somehow purchase God’s favor.

        ////////////////

        HOW U USE THE FAITH AND THE EYE, THE FEET, THE ARMS ?

        WHEN U USE EYES (gift) to lust, how does “imputation” work in this way?

        you said “not work” ?

        what does the hebrew bible say ABOUT WORKS ?

        Genesis 18 –
        19 For I have known him, to the end that he may COMMAND his children and his household after him, that they may KEEP THE WAY OF HASHEM, TO DO TZEDAKAH and MISHPAT; to the end that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him.’

        “TO DO TZEDAKAH” CLEARLY IMPLIES IT IS A GIFT GIVEN BY GOD TOO.

        “For I have loved him, because he commands his children and his household after him that they keep the way of HaShem, doing charity and justice, in order that HaShem might then bring upon Abraham that which He had spoken of him.”

        Proverbs 21-
        3 TO DO righteousness and justice is choicer to the LORD than sacrifice.
        15 TO DO justly is joy to the righteous, but ruin to the workers of iniquity.

        quote :

        . Tzadik/tzedek appear a few hundred times in Tanakh and it always means someone who DOES the RIGHT THING

        Isaiah 58:2-
        Yet they seek Me daily, and delight to know My ways; as a nation that DID TZEDAKAH, and forsook not the ordinance of their God, they ask of Me righteous judgements, they delight to draw near unto God.

        ALL OVER TANAKH THE WICKED ARE THOSE WHO DON’T ACT ACCORDING TO GODS LAWS, THE RIGHTEOUS ARE THOSE WHO ACT ACCORDING TO GODS LAWS

        “not work” must be a GIFT TOO.

        Like

  7. stewjo004

    @ Qb
    Awww, don’t even bring the Church Fathers up. As far as I’m concerned neither he nor Joel can ever use them again after they straight threw them under the bus in the wife beating and divorce discussion.

    Like

  8. Paulus

    “Muslims who go to hell for lack of deeds…will eventually be saved on the basis of their…DING…DING…DING…FAITH! “

    I love this logic. A Muslim is excluded from jannah for lack deeds, but Islam isn’t works based? Do you even hear yourself. If they are saved on the basis of their faith, then deeds would be irrelevant. Islam is so contradictory

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      I love how no verse is quoted in support for what you say but anyways:
      No one goes to heaven based on their deeds as the hadith I’ve quoted in the article show. Certain people will be punished because of the evil they did and then will be let out because of their faith. We’re not discussing if faith is a gift which Islam agrees with (as has been proven) what we’re discussing is if a person has faith but does evil are they still punished.

      For example, let’s say a Christian cheated someone out of some money in this life and never paid them back. My question to you is what will happen to them on the Day of Judgement? Please explain do they just get to get away with wronging the other person or does God punish them?

      Like

  9. Paulus

    “No one goes to heaven based on their deeds“

    You contradict your prophet

    “The Messenger of Allah said: “Whoever calls the Adhan for twelve years, he will be guaranteed Paradise“

    Like

    1. Paulus

      And the scholars

      “In the hereafter, we go to Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends upon the deeds that we did in worldly life.“

      Like

    1. stewjo004

      No, you’re inferring your personal opinion into the text and are just repeating something I’ve answered already. Please read my comment where I answered this and the article where I gave 3 explicit hadith.

      Now more importantly, because you must have missed my question if a Christian cheated someone out of some money in this life and never paid them back what will happen to them on the Day of Judgement? Do they just get to get away with wronging the other person or does God punish them?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Paulus

        You are changing the subject because I’ve exposed you. How can I “infer” my opinion in a text that is so clear?

        Muhammad said jannah is “guaranteed” to “Whoever calls the Adhan for twelve years”.

        Guaranteed jannah based on something you do, I.e a work, I.e earning salvation. There is simply no other possible reading.

        You contradict your prophet. But to be fair that is because your (Islam’s) soteriology is contradictory and incoherent.

        Like

      2. stewjo004

        First off, I’m not changing the subject I’m trying to show faith will get the person to Heaven but they can still be punished beforehand. The difference we’re having is you believe faith is an all protective forcefield that allows you to do whatever you want. Because you know this simple question logically refutes that you won’t answer it(which is very dishonest btw). The multiple Bible verses from James or Jesus himself also refute your position and agree with Islam’s position. You can put your fingers into your ear going la la la but it does not refute clear-cut text related to the subject. You’ve basically been refuted
        1. Logically
        2. Using your own book

        Next, the hadith about the adhan is weak and thus not usable:
        https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/3/23

        But for the sake of argument, even then these hadith are an encouragement to do good and give hope. God gives these easy things because unlike the Judaic-Christian concept He is not an inclusive racist and wants everyone to go to Heaven and is appreciative of any good you do. Hence why no Muslim says I’m going to Heaven even though most of us have done these things. Again you are ignoring a CLEAR CUT text and INFERRING the meaning of another.

        So back to the question you cheat someone on the Day of Judgement what happens in your beliefs? This is a common thing so I hope you can answer it Paulus?

        Like

      3. Paulus

        “The difference we’re having is you believe faith is an all protective forcefield that allows you to do whatever you want.“

        Lie.

        “The multiple Bible verses from James or Jesus himself also refute your position and agree with Islam’s position“

        Lie. Our scriptures complement one another nicely, contra muhammadanism.

        “You’ve basically been refuted
        1. Logically
        2. Using your own book“

        Lie. I gave you many many Hadith and scholars who agree that a Muslims deed affect their entry to jannah. You admitted the same with your comment on he’ll. You’ve been done!!

        “unlike the Judaic-Christian concept He is not an inclusive racist “

        And yet you believe you are the “best of people”

        Like

      4. “Muhammad said jannah is “guaranteed” to “Whoever calls the Adhan for twelve years”.”

        you are such a disgusting damaged human nature, one can say ALLAH “wraps his mercy kindness ” in those 12 years of works and it is ALLAH who will be saying “you REMEMBERED ME AND DID THE ACT OF CALLING OUT TO ME,i give you PARADISE”

        AGAIN , it is IN GODS SIGHT. WHAT GOD WANTS.

        who wouldn’t WANT TO DO WORKS TO HEAR THE CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH TO SAY “YOU DID WELL…”

        WHO WOULDN’T WANT TO DO WORKS TO HEAR ALLAH SAY “YOU WERE SINCERE….”

        GOD WILL BE INFORMING EVERYONE ABOUT THEIR WORKS

        Yusuf Ali: That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.

        Like

    2. Paulus

      Other Muslims agree

      “In the hereafter, we go to Jannah (Paradise) or Jahannam (Hell-fire) depends upon the deeds that we did in worldly life.“

      In fact, On the other thread Tony agreed with this quote. Here is the exact comment he made

      “yes, this is correct”

      You guys don’t even agree with each other.

      Like

    3. how the hiding under jesus’ skirt going ? when you lust, do you pluck your eye out or do you continue the next week and say “jesus’ righteousness our father in heaven….”
      do you rub the fathers face with jesus’ blood ?

      Like

  10. stewjo004

    @ Paulus

    1. You say faith isn’t a forcefield to do what you want but won’t answer the question I asked. If a Christian wrongs another do they get away Scott free or is there a reckoning for it? Lol, just saying lie doesn’t mean anything

    2. Bring your evidence that the verses from James and Jesus are in harmony with Paul’s faith-based model. Again simply saying lie doesn’t mean anything.

    3. The deed does not affect entry it only effects is a detour is involved. For example, the Prophet Jonah has more faith than everyone on this blog combined but God punished him for leaving his mission early. The same thing applies in the afterlife God will punish Muslims for not fulfilling their purpose. I think you understand now that saying lie isn’t a refutation.

    4. Believers are the best of people on earth, it’s just a fact like saying water is wet. It has nothing to do with race. You believe no warner or system was sent to any other people and that Africans, Indians, and certain other races are cursed by God to serve whites and Jews for eternity (the curse of Ham). The OT concept of God is by all definitions nationalistic and racist.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. “out working of faith” ? lol, how many times do i have to remind you that you are “born in sin” or DAMAGED from birth? you can’t do no “out working ” that’s why you HIDE under jesus’ SKIRT

        there is nothing you can do…no “outworking …” nothing .

        jesus said that those who lust SHOULD PLUCK out their eyes , otherwise they have COMMITTED ADULTERY. your “out working ” should be eye plucking , yet you would LOSE all yourself in HELL , then PLUCK yourself .

        Like

  11. it is as if “faith” is flawless…and deed is not flawless, what kind of planet are crosstians living on ?
    it is like the crosstian BOASTS in his faith and it can’t be dented, but his works can….
    i know why paul had no problem eating meat sacrificed to idols, cause it was all to do with ACTION and action does not matter , a crosstian who sees the act of killing animal in the name of pagan god baal or in front of an idol called baal, then this is only an ACTION and actions don’t matter because actions are just “DAMAGED FROM birth”
    even the birthing process is “damaged”

    the retard keeps on saying “gift ”
    “gift”
    i keep on asking, how are you using that “gift”
    he doesn’t get it.

    you really think you have GOLD egg , flawless faith ?

    why didn’t noah have faith that god would KEEP him afloat without his works? he could have trusted god and said “not my works god, but my faith”

    “MY TRUST in you will KEEP me floating on water, my deeds (making of boat) will make me sink ”

    WHY didn’t faith in the pagan “blood of jesus” save noah ? why did he have to do works to save himself ?

    just think about this.

    noah was told to do a job to save himself from destruction, if faith was just needed, he would have drowned like crosstians are drowning. noah was called a tzadik, and tzadik is DOING WORKS….

    Liked by 1 person

    1. so do you hide under jesus’ skirt/righteousness when you lust ? or do you pluck your eyes out?
      do you worry about how sincerely you repent ? do you worry about anything you do ? but why should a crosstian worry, his guilt has been transferred and a crosstian lives guilt free sinful life.

      by the way

      if i am one person and when i die i am one person, how is my one person DIFFERENT that the one person of the father?

      Liked by 1 person

    2. LOL, Coco the cheerleader is back! What’s the deal with menstruation?

      What fantasy world are you living in, dancing monkey? Your pal Cerbie got owned multiple times, and also exposed as a liar (like his lying savior) for only partially quoting Islamic scholars.

      Like

    3. stewjo004

      @ Joel
      Uhh.. he basically said:

      1. That Christians can wrong other people and not have to account for it.
      2. Ignored clear cut hadith on the subject(which he still hasn’t responded) and is inferring into the text.
      3. Ignored his own text on the subject in James (and Jesus(as) and said Christians don’t need to trace their theology back to him)
      4. Purposely misquoted multiple people to prove his point and provided no reference.

      So… yay for Christians then? Okay…..

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Paulus

        “That Christians can wrong other people and not have to account for it.“

        Lie

        “Ignored clear cut hadith on the subject(which he still hasn’t responded) and is inferring into the text.“

        Lie. I never disputed faith was required in Islam. You keep making these straw men arguments. I produced multiple Hadith and scholars which proved you wrong. You just don’t like it.

        “Ignored his own text on the subject in James (and Jesus(as) and said Christians don’t need to trace their theology back to him)“

        Lie. I said James complements the rest of scripture. The second sentence is just another lie.

        “Purposely misquoted multiple people to prove his point and provided no reference.“

        Lie. Strange that when I quote someone it is a “misquote” but Britney is allowed to isolate a single sentence from the Fathers entire homilies and treatises? Hypocrisy.

        You started off ok stew, but the more we talk here the more radical and muhammadan you are becoming. Your facade is slowly lifting.

        Like

    4. Paulus

      These guys don’t know what they believe. First they try to make Islam more like Christianity, then when that doesn’t work they try to make Christianity more like Islam.

      They are more confused that Bruce Jenner!!

      Like

      1. “That Christians can wrong other people and not have to account for it.“

        polis:
        Lie

        christians live GUILT FREE life under SKIRT of jesus. jesus TOOK away your guilt….james white said “even my REPENTANCE ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH”

        you make very light of SINS. you sin AGAINST THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND @ the same time you think ALL YOUR FUTURE SINS ARE WIPED CLEAR….you make LIGHT the sins you do AGAINST THE CREATOR.

        when a crosstian preaches about sin, i see a DISGUSTING hypocrite preaching….only to be SEEN by men….

        Like

  12. “You started off ok stew, but the more we talk here the more radical and muhammadan you are becoming. Your facade is slowly lifting.”

    is the “holy ” ghost speaking or the damaged nature speaking ? who is speaking ? each writer of the nt was “born in sin” so you can’t use them as source. so who is speaking ? do you think you are speaking from heaven ? lol

    Like

  13. “I can tell you that we are. Currently Christians are the only ones speaking up for traditional marriage in Australia. We are getting insulted and shut down but we are active….:”

    Tell me this- who is going about teaching that God’s love is unconditional?
    Who says that there is no balance of scales between good and bad and that our debts have been payed for?
    Who is it that claims that they are no longer under the law?

    ///////////////

    and green agreed that something needs to be done about this. maybe samuel is seeing the light?

    Like

  14. Pingback: Do Babies Go to Hell? – The Quran and Bible Blog

  15. Pingback: Do Babies Go to Hell? – Blogging Theology

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